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| Ageing guitars using reggae bass lines http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7478 |
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| Author: | Raj Snake [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:53 am ] |
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Hi all.. I've heard somewhere that the vibrations of the top when the guitar is played is what makes the guitar 'age' and 'open up'.I have several fine handmade instruments and they take it in turns to be stood in front of my sub-woofer with dub reggae bass lines to make the soundboards vibrate. Is there a concensus on whether this works,or is it my imagination? I do it because I want to be the one playing the guitar when it's mature,and given that it could take years and years for this to happen I don't want to be too old and feeble to play the guitars. can any of you wise experts out there enlighten me on this matter?? |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:03 am ] |
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A few years back I played a concert with a bluegrass band from NYC. The guitarist had great sounding Martin D-28 of course! After the show I asked him what year it was made. Turns out it was from the mid 90's, I don't remember the exact year. He claimed to have broken the guitar in by strapping it to the sub-woofer in his truck when on the road. Who knows if that was what did it but it sure sounded older than it was.... Louis Here is a related article: When Violinists Play, Their Violins Improve Researcher in England say that laboratory tests conducted on wood commonly used to make violins support age-old claims by musicians that the regular playing of a stringed instrument improves its tone. By Warren E. Leary (Excerpted from the New York Times) Dr. David G. Hunt of the School of Engineering Systems and Design at South Bank University in London sways his studies with pieces of spruce show that continuous forced vibrations similar to those experienced with regular use of a musical instrument changes the nature of the wood. In a letter published in the current issue of the journal Nature, Dr. Hunt and a graduate student, Emmanuel Balsan, said that wood vibrated in condition of high humidity increased in stiffness and saw a decrease in dampening coefficient, a measure of cycles of vibrations emanating from the material. Both factors are know to help provide more pleasant tones in spruce, mature pine and other woods used in instrument sounding boards, experts say. Dr. Hunt, who studies the structure of wood for the construction industry, said the results concerning musical instruments were a byproduct of research in the effect of moisture in wood. A music lover and avid concertgoer, he said he built a guitar several years ago but was not a violin expert. "People don't understand entirely the structure of wood, even after using it and studying it for centuries," he said in a telephone interview, "Part of the strength of wood is based on the amount of water in it and the way it bonds." The researchers vibrated beams of spruce at 10 cycles per second for 48 hours and the damping coefficient went down by 5 percent. The changes persisted when the vibrations stopped, they said. Lower damping coefficients mean that a single note is heard longer, which is considered a beneficial attribute. When the wood was vibrated in a chamber where the humidity was taken up to 80 to 90 percent, the damping coefficient went up fast before drifting downward, they reported. This resulted in a decrease in damping and increase in stiffness during vibrations that persisted when the vibrations were turned off, they said. Dr. Hunt attributed the changes in the wood to a redistribution of moisture in the wood caused by the vibration that remained stable for several days after the test. Over time perhaps months, he speculated, the wood was expected to go back to its initial state of equilibrium unless the vibrations were applied periodically. "Musicians have said that the sound of an instrument gets better the more you play it, and we have found a basis for that," he said. "Although for the best care of a musical instrument, both high and low humidities should be avoided," the researchers wrote, "the results suggest that at intermediate or high humidities, the sound quality may be improved by regular playing." Carleen Maley Hutchins of Montclair, NJ, considered one of the world's best violin makers and researchers, said she found the British work interesting and consistent with much of her research. Among other things, she has vibrated violins for 1,600 hours using frequencies from radio broadcasts and found that this changes wood resonance. "This would appear to complement work I have been doing," Mrs. Hutchins said in a telephone interview, "but I would question their conclusion that moisture bonding is the reason. There is research to indicate that the molecular bonds of wood actually break because of vibration and that this what affects the tonal qualities. So I think there may be more to it than moisture bonding." |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:06 pm ] |
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Very interesting, Louis! Thanks for posting. |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:48 pm ] |
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Thanks Lewis! I wonder if it makes a difference what kind of music you play to it? -Mark |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:08 pm ] |
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There is a ukeulele builder he believes you can pre age their tone and sound to give it a sound of a fine aged instrument. He has a struming machine he built that he puts the instrument on and it can hold a chord he use A minor chord I believe and it has a picker that pick all the strings at once. He runs it till it has strumed 1 million times. I think it takes a week to do this. I guess you could use this technique on the guitar too. The article was in frets magazine I believe a couple of months back. |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:55 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Mark Tripp] Thanks Lewis! I wonder if it makes a difference what kind of music you play to it? -Mark[/QUOTE] I was going to ask the same question.... |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:59 pm ] |
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Pete Townsend had a more radical way of aging his guitars. |
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| Author: | Raj Snake [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:39 pm ] |
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Thanks for the info about the violonist very interesting.I'll take that as a YES ..and continue to reggae-fy my guitars. I use reggae music as the bass lines are loud and prominent and I find that the soundboards vibrate enthusiastically with approval!! not sure if high frequency stuff would be the same..but maybe someone else knows better. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:59 pm ] |
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A friend of mine has a 20 year old Tak - he bought it the same year as another friend of his, who also happened to buy the same guitar. The one guy plays his a ton, the other sat in its case the majority of the years - they compared guitars a few months back and couldnt believe how close they sounded to one another. maybe it depends on the wood or something, but I think time and tension creates relative equality. |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:43 am ] |
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Thank you Lewis for this information.Very interesting stuff! Raj, About the strong bass line affecting the opening up of the guitar,It seems possible to have an effect on it but its tough to say for sure. Just have to give her a try I suppose  I think there was a thread on this subject a while back.Check out the archives. 
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:02 am ] |
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The CO Luthiers got together at Edward Victor Dick's place back in Feb, and there was a lengthy discussion on this topic. Edward has developed a tool that shakes his guitars through every note on a scale by vibrating the bridge. He has done about 50 guitars, and has had extremely good results. He said you can't make a crappy guitar sound good, but you can make a good guitar sound better. This jig was inspired by THIS book. You can see pics and read more about this jig HERE Enjoy! Tracy |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:04 am ] |
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Your welcome all!! Thanks to Ivon Schmuckler at the Leeds Guitarmakers' School in Northampton Mass for passing the article on to me. Louis |
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